From: Charles Ruhe ------------------------------------------- Much snipping of Dean's answer... > > Back to working with our regular Sensei: > > How many of you if you are uke for Sensei will continue standing if Sensei > starts to speak to the class? What about kneeling upright? Back down to > seiza? On one knee and one foot...this seems the best as it's sort of > neutral...you can still get up quickly yet you are down enough so as to not > be a distraction. > > Anyone out there have a specific ettiquette code regarding the above? > Never seen it written down anywhere, but the experienced people at North Bay tend to go all the way to seiza when it's clear that sensei is going to talk for a bit... unless they have knee problems. Domo, _S\o_ Charles From: Kjartan Clausen ------------------------------------------- On Mon, 25 Nov 1996, Charles Ruhe wrote: }Much snipping of Dean's answer... }> Back to working with our regular Sensei: }> }> How many of you if you are uke for Sensei will continue standing if Sensei }> starts to speak to the class? What about kneeling upright? Back down to }> seiza? On one knee and one foot...this seems the best as it's sort of }> neutral...you can still get up quickly yet you are down enough so as to not }> be a distraction. }> }> Anyone out there have a specific ettiquette code regarding the above? }> }Never seen it written down anywhere, but the experienced people at North }Bay tend to go all the way to seiza when it's clear that sensei is going }to talk for a bit... unless they have knee problems. The usual thing seems to be: Get out of the way and let sensei stand in the limelight. If this means sitting down, then do it. If it means take a few step backwards and becoming 'invisible' while still standing, then do it that way. As long as you're not stealing the show or causing undue disturbances, do whatever you feel is appropriate. From: Hal Davis ------------------------------------ At 09:50 PM 11/25/96 PST, you wrote: >Much snipping of Dean's answer... >> >> Back to working with our regular Sensei: >> >> How many of you if you are uke for Sensei will continue standing if Sensei >> starts to speak to the class? What about kneeling upright? Back down to >> seiza? On one knee and one foot...this seems the best as it's sort of >> neutral...you can still get up quickly yet you are down enough so as to not >> be a distraction. >> >> Anyone out there have a specific ettiquette code regarding the above? >> Our practice is to go to one knee and one foot. If sensei hasn't dismissed us, he clearly wants us ready to do an attack or technique on short notice. On the other hand, you feel like a doofus standing there beside sensei when he's just talking to the class, and even more so if you're taller than sensei and wide enough to impede some folks' view of sensei. So, while most of the class will go to seiza (except for the ones with knee problems, who may step off the mat and stand), sensei's uke will stay put and go to one knee until sensei beckons or dismisses. Hal Davis From: Ned Danieley --------------------------------------------- Dean C. Harris writes: > > Makes sense. It's interesting how many replied already. > > I was mainly wondering about working with high ranking instructors who you > are not familiar with. I always start with a moderate attack, and see how things go. as others have mentioned, the risk with a really strong attack is a really strong response! another thing to think of is that if you are uke for the instructor at a seminar, the instructor usually isn't trying to show that they can do exactly what they want with any attack you can provide; they are trying to teach a number of people a technique. so, IMHO, the emphasis is on giving the instructor a strong enough attack that they have the energy they need to clearly show their intentions, without making them do things that the majority of the class can't do. I had the opportunity to uke for Saito sensei once, and was admonished to 'grab harder'. so I did. didn't matter. > > But say 6 ppl attacking at once? Has anyone ever been in a multiple > person randori attacking a Shihan at a demonstration/seminar? What is the > object as uke? I mean if you are to attack sincerely all 6 of you wouldn't > RUSH as once...that is clearly stupid. Some would go high, some would go > low some would kick...you'd hover back until you saw a target of > opportunity. Emphasis would be to get a bear hug on his/her hips. > Hmm...anyone ever see a Gracie style shoot in? this is an interesting, and tough, question. is the purpose of randori to 'get' the nage? or is the purpose to provide nage with attacks that will allow them to show their skill level without anyone getting hurt? I tend to the latter point of view: randori is training, and the attacks have to fit the level of the people being trained. then, what do we do with a shihan? if you know the shihan well, then you know how hard and fast to attack without triggering what Ivan refers to as a #9 (or #10) response. if you don't, I'd start at a moderate level, and increase the intensity as I got a feel for what's going on. I think that, in general, you'll find it hard to deliver a really strong and focused attack on such a person: they tend to not be there, or to have put other impediments in your way! -- From: Jeff Frane -------------------------------------- At 11:03 PM 11/25/96 -0500, Dean wrote: > >Oh, well...forget about the Shihan randori thing. It's pure showbiz. >Unless someone can tell me otherwise. A number of years ago, at a USAF-WR summer camp, I watched about a dozen dan tests, shodan-to-yondan. Apparently, neither Chiba Sensei nor Shibata Sensei was terribly pleased with the rondori, so Shibata Sensei did a demonstration of what they expected. His ukes (4 or 5), were all biggish, seasoned aikidoka, and there was *nothing* bogus about any of it, from what I could see. Now, it's true, if a couple of them had kept him busy, while the others went out for guns... > >Back to working with our regular Sensei: > >How many of you if you are uke for Sensei will continue standing if Sensei >starts to speak to the class? What about kneeling upright? Back down to >seiza? On one knee and one foot...this seems the best as it's sort of >neutral...you can still get up quickly yet you are down enough so as to not >be a distraction. > I figure that my job is to be unobtrusive during the demo; I provide the slate for the teacher to draw on. When he's not drawing, but speaking, I get out of the way, sit down and pay attention. If he wants me, I need to be there immediately, but otherwise sitting is appropriate. I also make a concerted effort to be in the right place to bow to Sensei when the demo is over: he shouldn't have to look for me, and I try not to have him turn his butt, er, back to the rest of the class. --Jeff Frane .com> From: Susan Shapiro ----------------------------------------- > Has anyone ever outright CLOCKED their Sensei or a visiting Sensei? No...but I saw it happen...with a bokken, no less...to Chiba Sensei, no less. Interestingly enough, it was also an issue of how do you know how hard to attack a sensei... I was at a seminar about years ago at Paul Sylvain's dojo (rest in peace, Paul) in Northampton, MA. Chiba Sensei was the visiting sensei. He was using a new black belt as uke. No names, but you know who you are C****e!!!:-). At one point, Chiba Sensei was demonstrating defense from a shomen cut on ukes' part. When uke strikes down at your head, slide to the side, raise bokken to cover your head (hilt up/ point down) and let ukes' blade strike and slide down yours. He was going at a good clip and apparently decided to demo it slowly. He turned to his uke and told her "OK, not so fast." Which she heard as "OK, go fast." Welllll, she gathered all her internal resources and came in like a freight train.... Chiba sensei was moseying through the techinique - so we could all see exactly what was what - and had just gotten through the slide to side part when he saw the train... Oh boy! Get to see the man go REALLY FAST through the raise bokken to cover head part! Get to see sensei not quite make it! Her bokken slid down his covering blade OK but it gave his shoulder a nasty crack on the way down 'cause he hadn't the time to swing his blade over to cover his shoulder as well as his head. Ouch! Uke hit the mat in seiza in a bow so low I thought she was going to melt through the mat. She stayed there, too, face flat on the mat while Chiba Sensei lowered his bokken, clapped his smarting shoulder, turned around in a complete circle and announced to the ceiling in a resigned voice: "Ohhhh.... I really HATE it when that happens....." We then got a lecture on using restraint with a bokken so that "your knuckles don't end up like mine!" as Chiba Sensei put it. My guess is that most senseis have had the experience of getting clocked. Chiba Sensei certainly has. By the way, no lasting damage..... - Susan Shapiro From: "David J. Berger" --------------------------------------- << How many of you if you are uke for Sensei will continue standing if Sensei starts to speak to the class? What about kneeling upright? Back down to seiza? On one knee and one foot...this seems the best as it's sort of neutral...you can still get up quickly yet you are down enough so as to not be a distraction. Anyone out there have a specific ettiquette code regarding the above? >> We always go all the way down to seiza, but still out front with sensei. Then when he's ready, stand up, right leg first, and attack as smoothly as possible. -dave From: John Glinatsis ------------------------------------- Long ago in a galaxy far far away there was a 5th kyu who was the highest ranking Aikidoka in this area. This fellow was uke for the visiting shihan in this area when that particular shihan came around (not the only uke but one of the only instructors of Aikido here. This would be about 1972-73, and one night at a semminar this particular uke stepped on the Shihans hakama by mistake while taking ukemi and the shihan fell flat on his ass!!!!!! The story goes that the visitng shihan went out side and smoked a couple of cigaretes and came back in and started bouncing this poor 5th kyu off the floor so hard that the guy was almost sure he was going to die. The moral of the story is that although these guys are supposed to be full of love and all that other crap that some people have made themselves believe they also have bad days where they get pissed off and I for one don't want to be the one that bonks them on the head and is the object of their wrath. On the other side of the story several people who train here and were around in the old days wittnessed Saotome sensei get hit in the head by a jo once and he just smiled and said thanks to the uke for pointing out the hole in his tecnique. Mocha Sarasota Aikikai ASU From: "Gerald M. Santoro, PhD" -------------------------------------------- Hello, Maybe its because I am older than most of my students, or maybe its out of respect -- but I've sometimes had to stay in one spot to make sure an uke is giving a good attack for demonstration purposes. Every so often I will get clocked doing this -- or more likely when I am trying to talk and do waza at the same time. When this happens I smile and remind the students that it is OK to get hit occasionally. It teaches us to not fear the strike. Better to get hit in the dojo than on the street. If, for whatever reason, I mess up a technique -- I also use this as a learning experience -- to show that everyone (regardless of rank) is still learning. I try to also use this to demonstrate a correct attitude. My beef is with those instructors who would get angry or offended at an attack that dosen't simply defer. I've only seen that happen a few times -- and then only with novice instructors. I see it as a demonstration of character. gerry ----------------------------------------------------------------------------